Marketing lessons from the social media capital of the world

Mark Jones:

One of the interesting things about managing a legacy brand as a marketer is the tension between old and new. Of course, old, meaning an incredible brand that's got great equity. And then the new, meaning the way that the market and your customers are evolving rapidly. Of course, in the age of AI, it's moving even faster.

So one of the questions becomes, what do you do first, when you're looking at a digital, social and AI landscape? What decisions on infrastructure and teams need to be made, in what order? And who's going to come on the journey with you?

One of the interesting things about managing a brand that has a great legacy, a great heritage for marketers, is thinking about the way things used to be, and how they need to be in the future. Of course, we love social, we love websites, but when it comes to AI, how are customers going to interact with you on LLMs, and all these new platforms?

Of course, if you're a leader too, that begs a question, who's going to join you on the journey?

Hello, and welcome to The CMO Show. My name is Mark Jones, and this podcast is brought to you by Impact Institute, in partnership with our friends at Adobe. In fact, we're here at Adobe Summit, in Las Vegas.

Now, my guest today is Emmanuel Cruz. He's the assistant VP of digital marketing at Philippine Airlines. Now, this is a storied brand in the Philippines, the very first airline in Asia, 85 years old.

And Emmanuel has an interesting story. He came in just a year ago, and has had to execute a whole number of changes across his team, really get to understand a very socially dominant culture. Meaning, of course, social interaction is very important, the cultural fabric, but social platforms is really, really a strong way that their brand engages with their customers.

Of course, with the AI landscape evolving so quickly, he's had to look at that, as well. Of course, we touch on a couple of other interesting parts of the journey, including a safety video that's going viral, and how he's thinking about the future role of different people in their organisation, and how they're going to continue to evolve with customers as time goes on. So let's get stuck straight into our conversation.

Emmanuel, thanks for joining me. I wanted to begin by observing that Philippine Airlines is the first airline in Asia, 85 years. That's got to be quite a privilege, and an opportunity for you, working in digital marketing.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Actually, it's one of the best times to be in Philippine Airlines now. As the first airline in Asia established 85 years ago, we're actually celebrating our eighty-fifth Year anniversary this year.

Mark Jones:

Oh, congratulations.

Emmanuel Cruz:

And to celebrate that one, we had our first A351000, which is the first one in Southeast Asia. It was delivered early this year, and it's now flying Manila-JFK, and most of the flights, eventually.

A few more planes are coming in, so really upgrading the fleet. We also launched a new safety video, which is gaining a lot of traction, and social media interactions.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

We're very, very happy and very, very proud of it, to really commemorate this eighty-fifth year anniversary. So a lot of things happening for Philippine Airlines.

Mark Jones:

That's great. We'll talk about the safety video in a moment.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Sure. Yes.

Mark Jones:

I mean, in terms of your role, you're looking after the digital marketing, as well as being responsible for the sales of the commercial side of the business. And you've been in your new role now for about a year.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

So just give me an overview of what you're responsible for, and how it's working.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So it's quite a unique setup, as I might say, yes. I think it's mostly responding to how fast our digital marketing has changed.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So I lead the team of digital marketing, and my team handles all owned media, so all owned platforms of PAL. So that goes from website, app, and social media. And with social media, Philippines is social media capital of the world. So it's all said that all of our platforms are housed under one team.

Mark Jones:

Okay.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So I have my own teams running and leading each of the platforms, both on the front end, and also on the delivery side, on the backend. And this whole team works and coordinates directly with different stakeholders in the company, sales one of it, revenue management, number one, and salary, because all of the products and all of the e-commerce happens in all of our platforms.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah.

Mark Jones:

And as you say, social is a big part of that.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Social is a very big part of it.

Mark Jones:

Before we get to that bit, I'm interested to know you've been restructuring your team, since you began about a year ago. What was the need for that, and what have you been doing?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think when I came in, what I saw was, the team was mostly handling day-to-day business, as usual things. But as the technology and AI comes in, LLM comes in, we also need to be part ... We also need to have that structure that also comes up with piloting something new, and also coordinating with different stakeholders.

So with that, I separated the team. We have a planning team, which basically gives you the roadmap and the forecast for the next three, six, 12, 24, and 36 months, both in a tech stack, delivery of the product, and also on the new launches that we have. And then, on the other side of the fence, we have the delivery team, which is mostly in charge of making sure that the planning team is up-to-date with what they commit, in terms of a timeline.

Mark Jones:

And so, did you have a mismatch of roles or skills in the team? And how did you identify what needed to be done?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I don't really think it's a mismatch, or a mismatch of roles, but I think it's the proper and the right delegation of and delineation of the roles.

Mark Jones:

Yeah, got it.

Emmanuel Cruz:

And also leveraging on restraints of each of my managers. I think half of my managers are very good with delivery, half of them are very good with planning. So having said that, which is separate, one team really go for planning, coordinate with the rest of the organisation, create the roadmap that we have, and then, the other one with delivery, working with our agency partners, to deliver all of the projects on time info.

Mark Jones:

So I'm interested to understand now a little bit about the work you're doing across different areas, and the goal of that transformation. And one of them, of course, is your website.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

Which had quite poor downtime.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

And you're now boasting something in the order of 99.9 ...

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

Something percent, right?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes, so-

Mark Jones:

And what's going on there?

Emmanuel Cruz:

We switched to Adobe in late of 2024, and from there until today, there's 99.98% uptime already.

Mark Jones:

Okay.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Prior to that, we experienced a lot of crashes. We do seed sales, and with a high volume of traffic, and the website just won't function.

And I think it was imperative that as we progress, and as we transition into our digital first environment, our own asset, especially our website, which houses most of our traffic, if not the biggest chunk of our traffic, should always be up and running.

So it's really fixing the basics, and making sure that we are up all the time. We've had our biggest sale last March. It's our eighty-fifth anniversary seed sale, and our traffic was tremendous, and so far, no problem at all with the hosting of the site.

Mark Jones:

So just briefly, what's behind that, in terms of being able to deal with the demand?

Emmanuel Cruz:

So we are subscribed to Adobe Experience Manager. We are subscribed to Adobe CMS, and also, our hosting is also from Adobe. So I think our partnership with Adobe is a very good one, giving out the results that we wanted, in terms of making sure that our site is up and running.

Mark Jones:

Okay. I'd love to know a little bit about the social that you touched on earlier. That's a big part of your sales, and in customer engagement too. So what have you been doing there?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Social is a quintessential platform for Filipinos. We are the Facebook capital of the world. Instagram is also high, and now, TikTok is actually one of the fastest growing platforms in the country. So everyone uses it, depending on the demographics.

I think before, our approach was, all social media under one roof. Now we're looking into it as a platform first content. We're seeing a different audience, in a different segment, and a different product, or even a route, when we talk about TikTok.

And it's a very different audience, we talk about Facebook, a very different audience, when we talk about Instagram. So our planning approach now, in terms of the roadmap that we have, is always platform first, and then content after. If we do content first, and then platform after, most of the content, especially on TikTok, are not that relevant to that audience.

Mark Jones:

Got it.

Emmanuel Cruz:

It's a younger, lower attention Spanish, I may say. I don't want to generalise it, but I think so far, we're doing the right thing. A few weeks ago, we trended on a Bad bunny Song, and we got like a million views in 12 hours.

Mark Jones:

Wow.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Very good sentiments also, from Filipinos, mostly on the right target market for it. So I think we're doing the right direction, in terms of coming up with a platform first approach on social.

Mark Jones:

When you say "platform first," you really mean understanding your audience ...

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

And how they behave on those platforms, and that, from a personalization point of view, is key.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Good.

Mark Jones:

What can we learn about what you're doing there?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Good question. Platform first means that one, understanding the audience, two is serving the right content, and three is communicating the right product.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

For example, in TikTok, because it's a much more younger segment, we don't really promote Manila-LA, Manila-San Francisco. I think it's too much of a stretch already.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So we promote mostly of the islands in the Philippines, so domestic flights. When we talk to Instagram, it's a more affluent, a bit more mature market, than we put on all of our flights, our new Mabuhay suites on our A351000, I think it works very well there. Facebook is more of a targeted mass approach. Also, a way for us to communicate most of our announcements, that happens a week.

Mark Jones:

Okay. What is it about the Filipinos, and their love for social? There's something interesting there, I think.

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think statistically, I would say, correct me with the facts, but I think it's 90% penetration for Facebook.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

It's around 60% penetration now for TikTok. Around 60% also, I guess, for Instagram, or a bit lower. And why do the Filipinos love social? I think it's because of the time that we spend on traffic. No joke, but the average time is usually doubled, and that off the global averages, of the number of times spent on social media.

Mark Jones:

Okay.

Emmanuel Cruz:
And then, I think one is on traffic. Two, I think it's just, Filipinos are very social, very, very sociable. It's a way for us to connect. We have families all over the world, so it's a way for us to connect to our loved ones and our friends all over the world, as well.

Mark Jones:

Got it. The Filipino diaspora, so ...

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes, exactly.

Mark Jones:

So, just to drill a bit further now into AI, one of the interesting things about an experience for a customer is that in a traditional digital model, you might have to pass through a number of pages or stages, whereas that's really collapsing under AI, and it's becoming far more seamless. How are you treating that? What's the strategy that you're bringing to helping customers move really quickly through a purchasing process?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think now, with the collapse of that one, it's also the collapse of the funnel.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Before it was, we were very, very, again, revealing my age. We're very leaner, and very-

Mark Jones:

I think you're very wise, by the way.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Sorry?

Mark Jones:

You're very wise.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Thank you.

Mark Jones:

Not old, it's just wise.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Oh, yeah. Just keep going. We are always very lenient when you talk about awareness, consideration and conversion, you'd have different assets and content for it. But now, especially with TikTok, for example, it's all in one go. You get consideration and awareness and conversion, all in one set of an adverse set of content.

I think with that one, we really need to scale up. We need to be fast, in terms of coming up with content, with the right messages and the right product to serve your target audience, and your target segment. And I think that's where we are going towards to, in terms of how we want to serve and personalise as much as possible.

Mark Jones:

Right.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah.

Mark Jones:

It also strikes me that with the funnel collapsing, the speed of the transaction is increasing.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Jones:

And how are you dealing with that? Because there's a strategy, again, component to it, as well as the fulfilment.

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think, if we go back into the website itself, it's basically our e-commerce site, right?

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So now, what we're doing now, it's not just a way for you to transact. It's also a way for you to discover the routes, and get to know more about the brand and the product.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So it's all in one go. And more than that, it's really personalising it. I think before, in the past two years, I would say, we've already progressed into something that's more personal. We have Adobe Target in place.

Eventually, we have more of it in place as well, so that whatever you see is more suited to you. If you're browsing, for example, now, Philippine Airlines website from Las Vegas, you should see islands.

And if you're browsing from the Philippines, you should see mostly our top routes, outside the Philippines. So I think that's a personalization that we want, that we're already implementing with Adobe Target, as this part.

Mark Jones:

When it comes to your older audiences, these are people who've been aware of the brand for a very long period of time, and they might have established views about how they want to interact with you. How do you look after people in that context?

Emmanuel Cruz:

So definitely, we have data to back it up. We have our Mabuhay Miles, which is our loyalty programme. So it's really understanding them, and getting in the insights from there.

\Emmanuel Cruz :

Most of our more mature demographic would have a definitely very different behaviour when it comes to buying online.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Most of them actually still prefer to buy offline, but we're seeing still a substantial amount of the more mature demographic converting, and these are mostly on our more expensive routes, so usually, US routes from Manila or back.

Mark Jones:

When do you think AI is really going to take off for Philippine Airlines? Because my understanding is in Philippines, and many parts of Asia, that AI traffic is not yet a significant driver to your website, and I think some competitors of yours might be thinking of that as a bit of a comfort factor, right?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Jones:

"We don't have to act too quickly," but that could be a bad move, right?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah.

Mark Jones:

If you're not getting ready?

Emmanuel Cruz:

So I think for us, definitely the reason why I'm here is to learn more about AI, and how LLM would be affecting our brand visibility, our website visibility, as well. I think, give or take, it might be like in the next three, five years. On a conservative side, it might take over.

On a more aggressive side, it might be in the next two years, it can already be there. I think it's just about how we are ready, how we are embracing that technology, how embracing this change. I think it's inevitable for us to really just continue, and start something with it. And it's just bound to happen. Again, it's just a matter of when.

Mark Jones:

I'm going to say, three years seems like a long time in this game, right?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah. Maybe it's a-

Mark Jones:

Why do you think that long?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think in general, I think where we are right now, as mentioned, we just fixed the basics in the past two years.

Mark Jones:

Yeah. Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

It might take another year or two for us to progress into hyperpersonalization, and then, maybe in the third year, that's when we see more of the agentic AIs coming in. But again, that's on the conservative side.

Mark Jones:

Okay.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Of course, when it blows up ...

Mark Jones:

That's right.

Emmanuel Cruz:

You don't want to be the last one to adapt, right?

Mark Jones:

No. Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So I think it's striking the balance of, one, trying to pilot something new with it, but also, number two, understanding also where you are, and having your feet on the ground, and being realistic about things.

Mark Jones:

Yeah. Now you've got a really interesting approach to experimentation at Philippine Airlines. What does that look like? And in particular, I want to know, this is a question I get all the time, which is, what does failure look like? How do you tolerate or work with the idea that when we experiment, we're necessarily not always going to get it right?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think now, with all the data that we have, it's all the more, we should be doing most of the pilot and experimentation. I always tell my team, "This is the right time for us to do something, let's just start something small."

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So failure, for me, fail small, fail fast, and recover from it.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

You can't do ... I think, when I came in, people on the team wanted to launch something big, and something grand, right away. Of course, that takes time, resources and effort. And when that fails, it's a big failure. I tell them, "You need to dissect it. Whatever's not failing, learn from it, and then whatever's working, scale it up."

And I think so far, we're on the right track. We're seeing a lot of improvements, in terms of how we can scale up on things that are working. And of course, not really forget, but to learn from the smaller things.

Mark Jones:

Yes. How important is it to have the top down approval? Or really, that influence from people such as yourselves, and others in leadership, to be able to experiment and try these new things?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Oh, yeah.

Mark Jones:

Because I imagine there's a fear of failure, too.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah, very good. I think now, with the new marketing leadership team, I would say, our approval process is very fast. It's just me aligning with my boss, and me aligning the team, and that's it. So sometimes, you make decisions in literal, a minute or two, and we make it happen.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah.

Mark Jones:

Okay. Now, you mentioned this amazing safety video at the beginning of our conversation. Tell us about that, because I understand you won an award for it.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes. So it's part of the branding team, what they did. It's so far gaining a lot of traction, and a lot of awards. We're nominated again, I think, in the next few months for it. It's an homage to Filipinos' love for telenovela. It's basically, it's a romantic movie, and it goes back to the heritage of the Philippines. And it's all about care. It comes from the heart.

Mark Jones:

Okay.

Emmanuel Cruz:

It went viral, because it's quite unexpected for an airline to have a very dramatic, and a very overly dramatic safety video.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

But so far, whenever I'm in a plane and I see it, people are actually watching it from start to end.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think it gives that flavour, and that Filipino-ness, into Philippine Airlines.

Mark Jones:

What do you think the lesson for other airlines and other brands might be, from that experience?

Emmanuel Cruz:

I think one, it's really understanding your market, what they want, and what they want and what they need, going into that insight of what would truly be relevant to them.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

And then, two is, I think, staying true to the heritage of the brand. So I think with that stage of the video, our branding team was very, very good, in terms of bridging customer needs, and also, the brand heritage of Philippine Airlines.

Mark Jones:

What impact is it having on sales, if any, at this point? Because obviously, it's a safety video.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

So the primary goal is to educate on the plane.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes. Yes.

Mark Jones:

But you said it's going viral. So is that having a uplift? Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

It's going viral. I think it's giving a lot of brand recall and brand awareness for us.

Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

A lot of people are talking about it, and I think so far, any buzz that you get is buzz for the brand, right? So it's always on the good side.

Mark Jones:

That's great. And look, last question. If you think about the experience you've had in the last year, transforming the team as a relatively new leader in the organisation, what's one piece of advice you would give to people, other marketers in a role similar to you?

Emmanuel Cruz:

Very good question. I think first, it's coming in into a flagship carrier, coming in into a very rich heritage of Philippine Airlines. It's first understanding the core and the heart of the brand, and what it serves for. And then, second, is also understanding the team. I think my team has been there for quite some time already.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

A lot of them are very tenured already.

Mark Jones:

Yes.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So I can come in there and say, "These are the things we're going to do." I think it's first building that rapport with them. And then from there, I think it's mostly how you can set your agenda, and also ... I go back to, always, experimentation. Try something small first. If it works, then scale it up. If not, then learn from it, and move on.
Mark Jones:

Yeah.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah.

Mark Jones:

And it sounds like you've got to be driven, as well.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yes.

Mark Jones:

Really have [inaudible 00:27:15], that strong.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Right. I think, very driven. Also having that strategic mindset, and the strategic view. I think I come into the organisation with that vision of where we want our website and our own assets to be in the next three to five years. And I think it's also sharing that vision with the rest of the team. I don't think I'll be able to do this work without the strengths of my whole team.

Mark Jones:

No, of course.

Emmanuel Cruz:

So, yeah.

Mark Jones:

Well, Emanuel, thanks for ...

Emmanuel Cruz:

Thank you.

Mark Jones:

Stopping by to share your story with us, and all the best to you and the team.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Sure.

Mark Jones:

What a great brand and a great story.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.

Mark Jones:

It's a pleasure.

Emmanuel Cruz:

Okay. Thanks.

Mark Jones:

I really liked what Emanuel had to say about failure. It's a necessary part, of course, of life, but when it comes to AI, we need to really adopt this iterative approach to developing new products and solutions.

Anyone in software development will tell you that iteration is a necessary part of product development. And so, it's a mindset to be reminded of in marketing, that experimenting, with permission from the top, of course, and failing fast, as he said, is one of the keys to moving quickly in this age.

So, really great conversation with Emmanuel, and I hope you enjoyed this episode of The CMO Show. Until next time.